My youngest child told me and my wife that they are nonbinary a year ago. My response was, “Great, but to me, you’ll always be Makoto, so this doesn’t really change anything about our relationship or how I’ll treat you.” I never understood this need for people to want to be identified by a group they belong to. I’ve always treated everyone as individuals, and my brain has difficulty seeing individuals as parts of groups, other than being human.
I still have problems with my child’s pronouns (I am 50, and overcoming that ingrained teaching and 17 years of using he/him is hard to change), but they understand and never correct me when I mess up. I’m pretty sure that it’s because they know that I love them, and that’s what’s important.
It’s also possible they don’t know how to assert themselves to an adult, and that whatever nerve they worked up to tell you the first place isn’t matched by the ongoing toughness to make a point about.
But it hurts them every time, even if they’re strong enough to smile through it. Do better, stop making excuses.
I’m not making excuses. I’ve always supported my kids in whatever they are doing, and my child told me that they are happy with just trying. Over the past year, my frequency using they/them has increased significantly, and when I catch myself, I always make sure to correct it out loud. Last week, out of the blue, they came to my wife and me and said they wanted to treat us to dinner out (of course it was Wendy’s since that’s their favorite place to eat) since we were doing so well with their pronouns.
Thank you for the suggestion that I just do better, but I know my child is showing patience with his old dad, just like I did when they were younger and learning things like riding a bike or tying their shoes.
There really isn't a need to identify with a group, if you are considered "normal," as defined by the culture you live in. If that is the case for you, then it makes sense that you would not understand why some of us need to do this, but if you want to be an ally, and wish for equity and inclusion for everyone, it is important that you respect the decision of people who choose to identify with a group. For those of us who are marginalized, declaring who we are, in the context of a marginalized demographic, is often a very liberating and stabilizing statement. It is very damaging to the human psyche to feel invisible, ignored, or ostracized. Saying "This is who I am" is a healthy way of asserting our right to be who we are, in spite of our culture's oppressive assumptions and expectations about who/how we should be. For many, this group association is necessary for our well being and sense of inclusion.
Thank you for sharing your perspective. I understand being part of a marginalized group. I was diagnosed as having Autism Level 1 when I was 35. At the time I graduated from school, I had been bullied and harassed for the way I was, and had to learn how to get by on my own. That is probably the main reason that I see people more as individuals than I do as part of a smaller group. I am a person with Autism. Do I expect or want to be treated differently because of it? No. I want to be treated as Dave, with all my strengths and weaknesses, a whole person with an individual personality.
I may not understand the need to be identified with a group, but I do respect it, and try to include people and treat them as the individuals they are. For example, my child identifies as nonbinary, but they are still the same child I watched grow up. They’re still interested in games and multimedia, they still like wearing jeans and t shirts. Their favorite anime is still SteinsGate. And to their friends, they are not invisible.
I respect your desire to change our culture, and wish more people would try to make it better and more inclusive, but I still have difficulty seeing people as part of the group they belong to.
Again, thank you for your point of view. I often have difficulty with putting myself into someone else’s shoes and seeing things through their eyes. That’s why I write, and it helps me understand humanity and the world better.
Hey, I'm late-diagnosed Autistic too! So I get what you are saying: that you want to be regarded simply as you, without the label attached. On an emotional level, I can't connect to that, because I am very attached to my identity as Autistic. I do understand intellectually, though, and respect that you have a different preference about that than I do. I apologize for the (obviously erroneous) assumption I had made about you not having that challenge of being seen as "not normal." Obviously, you have had to contend with being seen as different, and you and I just deal with it in different ways. Thank you for this conversation. It is enlightening.
Oh, and I apologize again, because on re-reading your comment I see that you describe yourself as a person with Autism, and I referred to you as Autistic, so I apologize for that. I am Autistic; you are a person with Autism.
No worries! I always tell people that what they call me isn’t the issue. It’s so that they can understand me a little better and maybe ask if they are confused.
I was a teacher for almost 20 years, 8 of it at a boarding school for kids on the spectrum. When they started telling me that I was just like them, I went to get tested.
Thank you for this wonderful discussion! I’m glad you replied to my post! And, as I used to tell my students, “Normal is boring! Let your weirdness shine, if that’s part of you!”
I have a family member who came out as trans masculine nonbinary around age 30. Their pronouns are they/he and sometimes I make mistakes because of years of automatically using different pronouns. BUT I always quickly correct myself without making it about me, just as I would correct any other error in my speech or writing.
My identity as an autistic, Indigenous woman has been challenged repeatedly by well-meaning White male allies who asked isht like "But why tell anyone you're [autistic or Indigenous] when you can pass as [neurotypical or White]? Because my true identity is valid and has value. Why is it assumed White and neurotypical is the "better" identity I should mimic?
Loving and supporting people's authentic selves IS the most important thing.
This is so so perfect! I can say as a straight white woman that while not all of us had certain privileges, we still were born into a world which has people who think we are better. We Are NOT. We are different in so many ways. It is time to learn about things that are different, to accept we are not the superior race. We Are NOT. In many many ways we are Inferior. Being able to listen and truly understand others is a difficult lesson but it would make us all better humans. It should be a privilege if someone trusts us enough to share such personal things. We should never ever tell them they are not valid. That their feelings are wrong. They ARE valid, their feelings are as valid as anyone else’s.
LISTEN, UNDERSTAND and be KIND we need so much more kindness in this whole.
I’m an autistic person identified at 69. I have to admit, I’m having a lot of trouble with this pronoun focus. My English Composition roots won’t let me use a plural word for a single person. Please be grateful if I remember your name. Lots of the time, I don’t.
I didn’t think I was the only one who had problems with pronouns. Often people will assume that you’re disrespecting someone by not using their preferred pronouns, but in many cases like ours, it’s difficult to break decades of grammar teaching and real life usage. All I can say is that the people who matter to us are the ones who understand and are patient with us in learning to do it. Those who are short with us about it really don’t understand our own problems and difficulties in changing our habits, and, in my opinion, are more judgmental and cynical about people in general.
At my age, not being in the workforce any longer, I have very few conversations with anybody where I might have to remember pronouns. I have trouble with change.
Plus, I was a teacher for almost 20 years, and it took me forever to remember my students names every year. They still knew I cared about them and were understanding about it.
I'm sorry, but if you're unfamiliar with they/them singular then your grammar lessons were inadequate and incorrect.
They/them as a singular pronoun has been in documented use for—at a minimum—over 400 years. It's also the only logical choice in documented English for a singular person of unknown gender. "It" is not to be used for humans without implying disrespect and "he/she" is unwieldy and makes reading stilted.
They/them singular suffers none of these issues.
Perhaps I've been using singular they for decades because I wrote instruction manuals since adolescence. Singular they/them is the standard as written instructions should not be exclusive in their language. Especially since older manuals supported and perpetuated binary gender stereotypes: car repair always used "he" while cooking used "she."
Of course, both my maternal and paternal ancestors recognized 5 genders, so English is already very limiting in it's inclusiveness for me.
My youngest child told me and my wife that they are nonbinary a year ago. My response was, “Great, but to me, you’ll always be Makoto, so this doesn’t really change anything about our relationship or how I’ll treat you.” I never understood this need for people to want to be identified by a group they belong to. I’ve always treated everyone as individuals, and my brain has difficulty seeing individuals as parts of groups, other than being human.
I still have problems with my child’s pronouns (I am 50, and overcoming that ingrained teaching and 17 years of using he/him is hard to change), but they understand and never correct me when I mess up. I’m pretty sure that it’s because they know that I love them, and that’s what’s important.
It’s also possible they don’t know how to assert themselves to an adult, and that whatever nerve they worked up to tell you the first place isn’t matched by the ongoing toughness to make a point about.
But it hurts them every time, even if they’re strong enough to smile through it. Do better, stop making excuses.
I’m not making excuses. I’ve always supported my kids in whatever they are doing, and my child told me that they are happy with just trying. Over the past year, my frequency using they/them has increased significantly, and when I catch myself, I always make sure to correct it out loud. Last week, out of the blue, they came to my wife and me and said they wanted to treat us to dinner out (of course it was Wendy’s since that’s their favorite place to eat) since we were doing so well with their pronouns.
Thank you for the suggestion that I just do better, but I know my child is showing patience with his old dad, just like I did when they were younger and learning things like riding a bike or tying their shoes.
You are a good parent ❤️
Thank you 🙏
And you are an exceptionally kind, compassionate human, Pamela. Philámayaye wopíla for always shining your light on others.
🙏🏼❤️
Thank you beautiful lady. This was so touching-I was not having the best of days and this brought me out of my funk. 💖✌🏻
There really isn't a need to identify with a group, if you are considered "normal," as defined by the culture you live in. If that is the case for you, then it makes sense that you would not understand why some of us need to do this, but if you want to be an ally, and wish for equity and inclusion for everyone, it is important that you respect the decision of people who choose to identify with a group. For those of us who are marginalized, declaring who we are, in the context of a marginalized demographic, is often a very liberating and stabilizing statement. It is very damaging to the human psyche to feel invisible, ignored, or ostracized. Saying "This is who I am" is a healthy way of asserting our right to be who we are, in spite of our culture's oppressive assumptions and expectations about who/how we should be. For many, this group association is necessary for our well being and sense of inclusion.
Thank you for sharing your perspective. I understand being part of a marginalized group. I was diagnosed as having Autism Level 1 when I was 35. At the time I graduated from school, I had been bullied and harassed for the way I was, and had to learn how to get by on my own. That is probably the main reason that I see people more as individuals than I do as part of a smaller group. I am a person with Autism. Do I expect or want to be treated differently because of it? No. I want to be treated as Dave, with all my strengths and weaknesses, a whole person with an individual personality.
I may not understand the need to be identified with a group, but I do respect it, and try to include people and treat them as the individuals they are. For example, my child identifies as nonbinary, but they are still the same child I watched grow up. They’re still interested in games and multimedia, they still like wearing jeans and t shirts. Their favorite anime is still SteinsGate. And to their friends, they are not invisible.
I respect your desire to change our culture, and wish more people would try to make it better and more inclusive, but I still have difficulty seeing people as part of the group they belong to.
Again, thank you for your point of view. I often have difficulty with putting myself into someone else’s shoes and seeing things through their eyes. That’s why I write, and it helps me understand humanity and the world better.
Hey, I'm late-diagnosed Autistic too! So I get what you are saying: that you want to be regarded simply as you, without the label attached. On an emotional level, I can't connect to that, because I am very attached to my identity as Autistic. I do understand intellectually, though, and respect that you have a different preference about that than I do. I apologize for the (obviously erroneous) assumption I had made about you not having that challenge of being seen as "not normal." Obviously, you have had to contend with being seen as different, and you and I just deal with it in different ways. Thank you for this conversation. It is enlightening.
Oh, and I apologize again, because on re-reading your comment I see that you describe yourself as a person with Autism, and I referred to you as Autistic, so I apologize for that. I am Autistic; you are a person with Autism.
No worries! I always tell people that what they call me isn’t the issue. It’s so that they can understand me a little better and maybe ask if they are confused.
I was a teacher for almost 20 years, 8 of it at a boarding school for kids on the spectrum. When they started telling me that I was just like them, I went to get tested.
Thank you for this wonderful discussion! I’m glad you replied to my post! And, as I used to tell my students, “Normal is boring! Let your weirdness shine, if that’s part of you!”
Ha! I've said that same thing so often: Normal is boring!
Ditto, ditto, ditto.
I have a family member who came out as trans masculine nonbinary around age 30. Their pronouns are they/he and sometimes I make mistakes because of years of automatically using different pronouns. BUT I always quickly correct myself without making it about me, just as I would correct any other error in my speech or writing.
My identity as an autistic, Indigenous woman has been challenged repeatedly by well-meaning White male allies who asked isht like "But why tell anyone you're [autistic or Indigenous] when you can pass as [neurotypical or White]? Because my true identity is valid and has value. Why is it assumed White and neurotypical is the "better" identity I should mimic?
Loving and supporting people's authentic selves IS the most important thing.
This is so so perfect! I can say as a straight white woman that while not all of us had certain privileges, we still were born into a world which has people who think we are better. We Are NOT. We are different in so many ways. It is time to learn about things that are different, to accept we are not the superior race. We Are NOT. In many many ways we are Inferior. Being able to listen and truly understand others is a difficult lesson but it would make us all better humans. It should be a privilege if someone trusts us enough to share such personal things. We should never ever tell them they are not valid. That their feelings are wrong. They ARE valid, their feelings are as valid as anyone else’s.
LISTEN, UNDERSTAND and be KIND we need so much more kindness in this whole.
Auntie Mavis, I love you. Thank you for this.
Right back at ya, Nora. ❤️❤️❤️
I’m an autistic person identified at 69. I have to admit, I’m having a lot of trouble with this pronoun focus. My English Composition roots won’t let me use a plural word for a single person. Please be grateful if I remember your name. Lots of the time, I don’t.
I didn’t think I was the only one who had problems with pronouns. Often people will assume that you’re disrespecting someone by not using their preferred pronouns, but in many cases like ours, it’s difficult to break decades of grammar teaching and real life usage. All I can say is that the people who matter to us are the ones who understand and are patient with us in learning to do it. Those who are short with us about it really don’t understand our own problems and difficulties in changing our habits, and, in my opinion, are more judgmental and cynical about people in general.
At my age, not being in the workforce any longer, I have very few conversations with anybody where I might have to remember pronouns. I have trouble with change.
Plus, I was a teacher for almost 20 years, and it took me forever to remember my students names every year. They still knew I cared about them and were understanding about it.
My Grandmother called me by my Mother's name her entire life. I catch myself mixing up my kids all the time.
My dad (who’s 77) still calls me by my siblings’ names, regardless of gender. I don’t correct him or feel offended by it.
I'm sorry, but if you're unfamiliar with they/them singular then your grammar lessons were inadequate and incorrect.
They/them as a singular pronoun has been in documented use for—at a minimum—over 400 years. It's also the only logical choice in documented English for a singular person of unknown gender. "It" is not to be used for humans without implying disrespect and "he/she" is unwieldy and makes reading stilted.
They/them singular suffers none of these issues.
Perhaps I've been using singular they for decades because I wrote instruction manuals since adolescence. Singular they/them is the standard as written instructions should not be exclusive in their language. Especially since older manuals supported and perpetuated binary gender stereotypes: car repair always used "he" while cooking used "she."
Of course, both my maternal and paternal ancestors recognized 5 genders, so English is already very limiting in it's inclusiveness for me.